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Friday, December 15 2017 @ 09:04 AM EST
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 As Shakespeare would say, there's the rub
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John Matras
By: John Matras (offline)  Friday, September 15 2017 @ 10:28 AM EDT (Read 380 times)  
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So I installed--or had installed--the Koni street shocks on my '90, and yes, they were a definite improvement, though after they were put on I've the left in particular tire is rubbing against the lining of the wheel well on hard turns with the front suspension compressed, such as a hard downhill hairpin (and by hairpin I mean one marked at 5 mph). I don't remember if this started immediately after the shocks were installed--or shortly thereafter, and I just hadn't turned hard and sharp enough to find out.

 

I had gone plus-1 when I replaced the tires, so there's a bit more width there. Tires are 195/60 BFGoodrich G-Force Super Sport on the standard daisy wheels, so there's no offset-induced problem but the tires are pretty square shouldered. But the tires were "supposed to fit," I think per Tire Rack's recommendation.

 

Whatever, it didn't do it with the stock shocks, no matter how hard I drove it on the back roads, but now on a couple of local hairpin/switchbacks (anyone familiar with the sharp turn coming down Camelback Road--and if you know what I;m talking about you know what I'm talking about) I have to tiptoe around and still it touches if there is any more than a little force applied.

 

BTW, the touch is directly above the the highest point of the tire (axle line, or whatever you want to call it) on the inner lining of the fender. It's not at the fender lip or where it might on the inside wall of the wheel well.

 

What I'm thinking is that there should be a bump stop that's not there, or just that the Koni allows more wheel travel, or rides lower than stock...but still, if they're sold as applying to this particular make and model, they shouldn't compress to where there's a problem. Whatever, I didn't think that clearance would be that much of a problem with this car.

 

Any thoughts? I'm taking it back to where I had the shocks installed (Ray Price Mazda in East Stroudsburg for) which I have an appointment for next week. But in the meantime, any ideas so I can speak like I know what I'm talking about when I get there?

t

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STS_Smurf
By: STS_Smurf (offline)  Sunday, September 17 2017 @ 10:59 PM EDT  
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The yellow Konis for an NA Miata have 3 (IIRC) spring perch settings/snap ring grooves on them.  Sort of a bonus for 'just' a stock replacement type shock, but if you (or the installer, perhaps unintentionally) do take advantage of this to lower the car it will result in rub at the extreme limits of travel especially when you couple it with larger-than-stock tires.  If the installer also used the standard Koni bump stops that would have been in the box, they are shorter than stock.  They are still adequate to protect the shock from bottoming, but add travel.  More usable travel is typically a good thing.  If you are bothered by the occasional rubbing you'll have to change one of the above - tire size, bump stops or ride height.

 

 

Mike
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1999 Highlight Silver Metallic


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John Matras
By: John Matras (offline)  Monday, September 18 2017 @ 03:57 AM EDT  
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Oh, man, I just wrote a long reply, long enough that the login expired, and when I logged back in...I lost the reply.

 

Well,that probably will reduce a lot of rambling.

 

The problem is not liveable-wtih. It's loud when the tires hit the liner--I've had people turn their heads to see what the heck is wrong with that car, and it's quite upsetting to passengers. And worse, it's beginning to rub a hole in the plastic liner. It's something that has to be fixed.

Anyway, changing tires is more money that I want to contemplate, especially because the tires are relatively new.

Yeah, since the new shocks were installed, it does look to be riding lower. I thought it might be in my mind but apparently not. That said, I don't want to raise it becuase it would make it look like its riding around with its high-water pants on.

So it's bump stops I suppose, though I've done a bit of reading on that and basically what I've discovered is that there are a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about because they all can't be right. I did notice at Moss Miata that there are "comfort" and "sport" bump stops, but I don't really know what that means. I'm going to check with Moss, but still, any further input would be great.

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FredM
By: FredM (offline)  Tuesday, September 19 2017 @ 10:19 AM EDT  
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I know nothing about suspensions. If this were me, I would pay a visit to the guys at Moto-East.

Neither a borrower nor a lender be... -- William Shakespeare
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John Matras
By: John Matras (offline)  Tuesday, September 19 2017 @ 10:40 PM EDT  
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Quote by: FredM

I know nothing about suspensions. If this were me, I would pay a visit to the guys at Moto-East.

 

I took my car to the local dealer (Ray Price in East Stroudsburg, who I had install the shocks) for them to see whether the shocks could be adjusted for a higher ride height...and they said there aren't multiple perch settings. Well, that was a couple of wasted hours.

 

 

I'll contact Moto-East.

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STS_Smurf
By: STS_Smurf (offline)  Wednesday, September 20 2017 @ 10:37 AM EDT  
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Quote by: John Matras

Quote by: FredM

I know nothing about suspensions. If this were me, I would pay a visit to the guys at Moto-East.

 

I took my car to the local dealer (Ray Price in East Stroudsburg, who I had install the shocks) for them to see whether the shocks could be adjusted for a higher ride height...and they said there aren't multiple perch settings. Well, that was a couple of wasted hours.

 

 

I'll contact Moto-East.

 

The different settings are not obvious - you must completely uninstall the shock and then move a snap ring that was painted into the shock by the factory.  See the multiple grooves around the shock body, each of those is a location the snap ring upon which the silver disk rests can be physically moved to.  Either the dealer is unaware or they knew you weren't going to want to pay for a full R&R of the shocks to do it.

 

 

Moto-East will at least give you an accurate answer on what is causing the rubbing and what your options are to fix it.

Mike
1990 Mariner Blue
1999 Highlight Silver Metallic


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John Matras
By: John Matras (offline)  Wednesday, September 20 2017 @ 12:09 PM EDT  
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Ah, thanks for the picture. I'm sure the dealer had no idea even where to look. I certainly didn't know, although it makes sense because the shocks are used on many different applications, not just Miatas. But one would think that that the shocks would come with instructions on which ring to use (or maybe they did and weren't read...including by me).

 

OK. so here's a thought. If the mountain won't come to Mohammed, Mohammed will go to the moutain. The easiet and perhaps "best" method--i.e., without raising the car with all the concommitant uninstalling and reinstalling would be simply to move the plastic liner out of the way. Obviously not remove  the liner because Mazda obviously put it there for a good reason, but perhaps I could raise it a bit. Just reaching and pushing it up doesn't feel like there's metal or anything immediately in proximity. So maybe some fat rubber washers, moving the plastic liner above the tabs that liner mounts on would gain enough clearance. It's obviously not rubbing a lot, especially if moving the spring perches that much would make a difference.

 

I'll give that a try. Mountain, here comes Mohammed.

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STS_Smurf
By: STS_Smurf (offline)  Wednesday, September 20 2017 @ 01:30 PM EDT  
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My understanding is that the various locations are because spring length and ride height changed over the years (90-97) that these shocks are used in.  90-93 is generally the same IIRC, r-package cars sat a bit lower, and I swear every 95-96-97 car looks like it rides higher than the last.

 

What part of the fender liner are they rubbing?  Inside, outside, dead center?

 

Where are you located?  I'd be happy to take a look and see if anything is obviously off.  Have had several stock class autox cars and rallycross cars both of which either have to or want to run stock ride heights or above.  I am in 19539.

Mike
1990 Mariner Blue
1999 Highlight Silver Metallic


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John Matras
By: John Matras (offline)  Wednesday, September 20 2017 @ 04:11 PM EDT  
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You're way down there. I'm in Tannersville.

 

It's rubbing on the liner, not the fender lip, directly above the centerline of the tire. There's a squarish projection in the plastic and that's where it's rubbing. It's doing it on both sides, though the left is worse because (a) the driver's on that side and (b) on the road at least, rignt turns are sharper. (Left turns are going around the outside of the road)..

I'm wondering if there's something behind there that sticks out. I can't imagine they'd put that projection there for no good reason. But I haven't pulled the liner off to see what lies beneath. Perhaps I could exacto-knife the bump off and manufacture a patch from some random plastic and gorilla glue it on. Of course, if it keeps rubbing, I won't have to cut it out. The tires will have done it for me.

 

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STS_Smurf
By: STS_Smurf (offline)  Thursday, September 21 2017 @ 09:01 AM EDT  
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Oh, that? Just give it a good poke and turn it from convex to concave. I dont know if some cars have hard parts behind it but mine didn't and that fixed a snow tire rubbing issue for me.

Mike
1990 Mariner Blue
1999 Highlight Silver Metallic


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